Social & Cultural Myths that influence our choices
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This week I was challenged to think about ways in which I deny who I can be.
I am still in London at the moment and received an email from a friend who was originally from London but living in the US saying 'I am really jealous of you being there at the moment - I miss England!' I was surprised at her using the word 'jealous' as her work and outlook on life is 'we become what we think' and that negative (as well as positive thoughts) influence what we create.
An interesting discussion followed - yes, she did indeed believe that our thoughts create our experiences - and she referred me to Earl Nightingale's recording 'The Incredible Secret' where he says that all wise men (and women?), philosophers etc agree on one thing - and one thing only - 'we become what we think about'.
So why did I feel so negatively about the use of the word 'jealous'. I have felt jealous in the past in my 20s. I easily talk about anger, deception, deceit and death - but why not jealousy?
Am I, like she suggested, denying the possibility that I can be jealous? Is there any difference between being aware (and experiencing) anger, fear, irritation of others, my propensity to judge or criticise others - and 'jealousy'? Why don't I put the ones I feel able to say I feel and experience in the same category with one I am resisting i.e. 'jealousy'?
Is this debate in the same basket as 'what is my purpose'? Is it liberating to have a purpose or does it enslave?
Am I hoodwinking myself into a story 'It is negative to use such emotive words as jealousy as we 'create what we think about' ' and that this is an excuse Clare for denying a capacity in myself? OR Is it is preferable to not use such highly emotive words? Is this word emotive only to me and perhaps anger, fear, death more emotive to others and would elicit the same reaction?
I think it is these debates that are central to being a personal conscious leader of our own life - as it creates an opportunity to increase awareness - and therefore regularly exercise where we are denying other ways of doing things or being things. We can then be open to other peoples' ideas? What else is then possible?
What do you think?
Hi Clare,
Interesting that a few months ago I probably felt the same about the word Jealousy, in fact I was not able to let myself feel jealous because I thought it was a "negative feeling" - however working through the Artist's Way recently, one of the key activities is to actually list people that you are in some way jealous off. And more often than not I find that I would probably list people that I truly love, it could be
My brother - as he is so easy with connecting with people and such a light spirit.
My mother - who has created a life where she does not have the responsibility of working for a living.
My best friend who is an amazing musician
Erica Jong (not my close friend yet) who is an amazing author for me and writes exactly the way I want to write if I ever write a novel.
I understood through the process of this exercise that what I am jealous of is actually what I see in others that I want more of in my life or I actually admire...now if your friend had worded this differently and actually said,
"Clare I miss London, and I admire you for the fact that you were able to create this in your life...I wish I had more of this" - I guess, she would have been describing exactly the same thing.
I also sometimes think that because we are of the "camp" that believe in what we think we create...we are less accepting of some normal, natural, human feelings of saddness, tears, loss...and letting the process of these feelings that we do encounter from time to time able to enlighten us to a new awareness of whatever experience we are going through.
Now she may well have said it because she was jealous, and wished she was travelling. But perhaps if she really thought about this, she may not have wanted to create this - who knows, she may have been just as happy where she is with what she has created, but in that moment felt jealousy.
It must also have been the value of the closeness with you for her to express this to you - again I guess only you know the quality of your relationship here. Sometimes it is easier to share our closest emotions with people we value and love.
So - if you dig deep who would you be jealous of and for what?
Then the counter exercise is to think, what is it about this situation that I choose or not choose to create and experience in my own life?
Lots of love,
Zita xxx
PS: I am jealouse of your wonderful pendant...of course I do have the choice of going out to the shops today and buying it! However maybe I just like looking at it on you and admiring it...
Hi Zita
Yes you are so right when you say that if my friend had framed her comments without using the seemingly 'negative' adjective jealousy, I might not have had the same reaction - despite the essence of the comment being the same!
I love how you always bring me down to earth with reflections on e.g. being jealous of my pendant! Mental note to get out of my head!!
This got me thinking to what exactly is "jealousy"?
Firstly I went and looked it up... one of the common definitions is
“jealousy is an emotion experienced when a person is threatened by the loss of an important relation with another person”
This didn't seem quite right. Is there also a component of superiority in there? i.e. do we believe the other person is superior to us as they have or are something that we believe we dont? And is it only for things that we know that we are not willing to show up for?
With recent Olympics I was wondering why I am not jealous of say an olympic swimmer and judging myself that I cannot swim that fast?
So do we only do jealousy for the things that we know at some level we can actually be?
Hmmmm
Brendan - interesting...
Are we only jealous of things we know we can be? I think so! Also, are there times when we deny or don't allow ourselves to be jeaous because we are refusing to encompass within ourselves unchartered territory of 'becoming something more... -or less....'? It's not that we can't feel jeaous, it because we can't allow ourselves to expand our sense of self?
So, does this mean jealousy can be a positive thing which I am denying because I think it detracts when, in fact it adds? Like, having purpose, I thought i would enlighten but found it enslaved? Jealousy might be the hidden nugget and not the limiter?
Carl and others, we definitely need comments on this one! Thanks for bringing this up Brendan.
Jealous, envious admiration awe, I find it a great source of conflict when ever I think other people are using words to mean other than they mean to me. Does a word have a fixed meaning or do we read into words our meaning?
I have found much angst with family members who use words in ways that are not in keeping with my definition of the word (and often not in agreement with the dictionary either).
After a bit of digging I often find they meant something else but the meaning of the word was muddled. In fact most of our vocabulary is not taught to us but learnt on the job so to speak often contextually in emotionally charged situations.
I wonder if you friend was jealous or envious and do I even know what you think those words mean let alone me. Was she in fact choosing to have other values met and not her desire to be in London? I know you guys know this but my take is that jealousy for me is always a good pointer to disowned parts of self or unacknowledged desires needs or wants. I love it if it comes up because as Zita mentioned it can point to people and things I often love or admire.
Stephen,
You have again added something more that I can really benefit from - in fact two things. The first is yes, the experience of my reaction of jealousy (and others' comments on it) have shown me that indeed jealousy indicates to me unaccepted or un-integrated parts of me. The other thing is that I am now bewilldered how I miss this opportunity the first time around - it was not the first time I had a strong reaction to the word!
We do indeed learn language 'on the job' - the potential is great for misunderstanding - but is this in iteself a golden nugget? As with all ideas, we have:
A thesis
An Anti thesis
A Synthesis - once we have others inputs - perhaps that is what we are doing here in this discussion?
All I know is that I get jealous-the reasons I'm not so sure about but I know I do and I tend not to like it...If I know what I am thinking about- surely the perspective that sees the 'negative' state of mind i.e. jealousy cant' be jealousy by virtue of the seeing of it-therefore we may become what we think, but do we only consider that our state of mind is that which we 'see?' Is it possible that our state of mind might be the 'seer' of the negative state of jealousy...?
So I propose tonight that we are not what we think, that we don’t become what we think- but remain that which we always were; the awareness of what ever is going on.
Carl
You have thrown another curve ball into the mix I think!
Your perspective reminds me of Heidegger's notion of inauthenticity. I recall heated debates when I was doing my existential training between lecturers who agreed with heideger's perspective that we are authentic in those moments when we come into awareness that what we are 'seeing' or 'experiencing' is purely subjectively derived. Until we do not have the 'aha' moment of this, we are inauthentic. Students railed against this, saying 'if we are not aware that we are not aware, how can we be inauthentic? Once we come into an awareness of our unawareness, we become aware - and thus come out of unawareness!' So, they (including me at times) said 'Surely we can't therefore be inauthentic at all?' Perhaps only inauthentic when we have had the 'aha' moment and yet deny it maybe?
Carl, I think you and I should run a workshop on Heidegger's notion of inauthenticity for other founders. What do you think?
I think we all need to get on with this e-book because as a group, new things are arising out of our dialogue - together we have a library of books to write.
Hi all.
My apologies for my lack of presence in recent weeks. I was flicking back through some of the dialogue and found this to be a great discussion unfolding. My thinking is that the context of a conversation as well as the individual meaning (both intellectual and emotional) that a person may attach to a word are both important aspects of an exchange like this. And the assumptions we make about what meaning a word may have (whether accurate or not) is more likely than not to occur – perhaps even necessary for us to be able to communicate as efficiently as we do.
For example, there is a line of thought suggesting that what we call the colour “red” is indeed only a label we give to the same experience of seeing the colour red, that we assume others also have. The assumption we make is that the experience of “red” is exactly the same for 2 different people. When in fact Person 1's experience of “red”, although always consistent for that person, may in fact be different to that of Person 2, even though Person 2 also has a consistent but different experience. I guess that’s the ultimate in understanding the potential for our individual perspectives and the ability to find common understanding! Hope that made sense??? (I've just reread what I wrote...)
With regards to authenticity, one definition may be in the theory underpinning what is considered powerful goal setting. The theory says that authenticity comes when our goals are aligned with our values. When there is alignment between what is important to us and what we want to achieve, then there is congruence and authenticity and that is when real empowerment and truly magical things can happen.
Peter
Hi Peter
Great to have you on board again - we know you have been busy but, as always, your additions are always insightful and helpful!
The philosophical questions of whether what I see as the colour red is what you see, is intriguing. I am wracking my brains as to an excellent book on the key questions underpinning all philosophy - the first one on my reading list as a psychotherapist! Does the taste of strawberry icecream indeed taste the same to you? Something I will never know and if I look at it closely, reminds me of the 'aloneness' of my phenomenological world.
One sure thing - we are all tasting or seeing something and, like our dialogues on purpose or jealousy, I am sure there is room for enlightenment or challenges to our reality....
Hi Clare
It really is the stuff that interests me what you replied with. I will do the workshop with you if want to. Just very curious about the pretending that I and others do-why? when? how? I dont think i have a curve ball only the ball that comes out the easiest.
thanks for relating what i said in terms of what Heidegger said, it's very helpful to hear how others put what I feel and think, especially someone with hefty cred...
I feel more interested in finding how I am inauthentic rather than being so-working on what gets in the road of what might naturally be there anyway
regards
You're on - we'll put something together - it seems that you and I have the ability to make existential principles applicable to everyday life - Heidegger look out!
And I believe it has so much relevance to personal conscious leadership as it's about authenticity and inauthenticity and awareness etc - well from my perspective at least!
I was out in public with a family member yesterday. Some time passed as we waited for someone. I decided to give some water to a rather old-looking dog who has been tied to a bench. It was panting and, although out of the sun, might have been thirsty.
Little did I know it would set off such a storm - and give me material for the site!
The family member (who remains namless) became very angry, accusing me of imposing my values on others, assuming everyone in the world was cruel to animals, interfering and totally impervious to the feelings of others. Bit of a challenge! At this point, I had not said a word - merely walked to the dog and placed infront of it a dish of water.
What was going on? Why had my behaviour created such a storm? Here's my guess. I think the person was embarrassed, fearful of the owner returning and becoming abusive or resistant, irritated at me acting assertively, or maybe uncomfortable at wanting to act herself but feeling unable to. These are all my fantasies from her comments of course. They may all be false but this is what I saw.
But overall, what was going on? How often might such an exchange become personal - and focus on an argument between two people with two different viewpoints. When this happens, the bigger influences are never uncovered.
From my perspective, I chose to give the dog some water - nothing more, nothing less - I didn't think it was being cruelly treated - I just decided to offer it some water. From the other person's perspective, there seemed to be a whole story created about what was going on e.g.
'There is a correct way to act in public; the dog is owned by someone else and you have no right to interfere; don't make a fuss; you don't live here and people who live in this geographical vicinity don't behave like this so you mustn't as an outsider, etc etc'.
This is the group myth! The unquestioned social and cultual assumption that we must be like everyone else to be acceptable!
I told my father this story and he immediately rushed to defence of a person't right to choose. Does this mean dad is liberated, questioning the group myth, or does it mean he has bought into another myth called 'the right to choose - whatever the circumstance?' What myth am I operating in even writing this? The myth that I have an unbridled right to question everything?
Oh why can't I conform and why didn't I take the green pill (as per the matrix?)
Comments please?
Well I must say, why do we believe that humans have a monopoly on communication...
What if the dog just asked you for a drink? Simple as that!
But of course, the implications in that are unfathomable for most!!!
What else are we not listening to?
Funny enough i was just reading this last night in a novel by Deepak Chopra and thought it was appropriate to the whole notion of group myths.
“We spend most of our life cooking up all kinds of untrue things. Why? So we won’t be afraid. the mind likes to sooth itself with stories, and after they get made up, we run around under their spell. But if you look closer, there’s one huge spell engulfing all of us.” - Extract from Deepak Chopra’s book “The Return of Merlin”
So what is the huge spell engulfing all of us?
Clare,
If you had taken the green pill maybe the dog would have bitten you? I don’t know…one thing is for sure and that is you didn’t just give the dog a dish of water… you set off something in this person-God knows what really, you can only guess which you did.
Morrissey was right; Life is a pig stye-it’s messy, there is stuff everywhere and the mud darkens everything in it.
If the dog could have talked it would have thanked you for the water which would have probably made the family member feel even more guilty…that’s what I pick up-
I think you reminded the person you were with that they aren’t like you or you aren’t like they and that always pisses people off-the green wont fix it-life is a pig stye full of scraps from former lives, bits of food and funny smells that we think might be coming from us but emanating from someone else…
I don’t know though, I can only guess like you- I have a family member who makes me guess why suddenly he is annoyed…
the thing is for me is that at the time there is no green pill only what I chose to do in the moment-your moment- also the only cruel treatment to me seems to come from your family member to you.
I believe in live and let live-I practice in my mirror at home sometimes saying to an imaginary anyone who has told me how to be the following sentence: “Don’t tell me how to be.” That’s it.
I like you have the right to question everything worth questioning but no right to expect people to like it...
With respect and positivism once again: Life is a pig stye. As for your dad-He’s liberated and trapped.
Carl-a lost soul with bright eyes
Oh Brendan- the huge spell engulfing us all is: if we find out what that is then everything will be fine...
my spells are that there are spells
even the things i have to fix them with-spells again
incantation form the 4th book of Merlin: the cure for a spell is to know it's a spell
I made all of this up-but i made it up with something that comes from somewhere
Trust Brendan to ask if we are the only ones who have choices!
Carl, how right I think you are that we have no right to expect others to agree with us - perhaps I am subtly doing this without realising it when I have such a reaction?
Not sure about this site - I am questioning everything now....
I am in London at the moment and this week met with a colleague I had not seen for 10 years - I was surprised by how he had changed in appearance as he has since developed Parkinson's disease.
We reflected on some of stories of us working together in the middle east together and I asked him if he still visited Malta. He said that two friends had died there in quick succession and he didn't want to return because 'He too was dying!'
I didn't respond immediately but looked him in the eyes, raised my eyebrows automtically to encourage him to continue. He said 'Yes, I am dying - I don't know if I have two weeks, 6 months or 15 years left - in fact, this was the same when I was twenty - to date I am wrong that I only have 40 years left!' We laughed but I reflected after on myths around the subject of death - particularly where someone has a particular diagnosed illness or observable condition. My guess is that a normal response to his comment 'I am dying' would be met with sympathy, support and 'I am so so sorry'. I didn't do this - guess what? I am dying too!
So the question is....
To what extent do people who have been diagnosed have the right to be treated any differently on the subject of death than the person who doesn't know when they will die (according to some espoused wisdom from the profession)? And of course, don't start me on the myth of the medical model and validity of diagnosis!
I can already hear Brendan saying 'What if you did know?' and Stephen and I questioning the notion of what is professionalism - somethere to safeguard to public or abuse of power?
Over to you guys....
Incidentally, I like talking about death - as Heidegger says ... It reminds us how to live!
